tribe/m

p0rn....

Janie Thu, October 18, 2007 - 8:35 PM by Janie

now that i have your attention...

do you like it? do you watch it? what sorts of porn do you like the best? if you're a straight woman, does watching two women make you less straight? i've always wondered that....

these and many other questions brought to you by a lack of sex in Janie's life ~_O


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Thu, October 18, 2007 - 9:08 PM by Unsubsc...

Do I like porn? Hmm, well the acting is seldom award winning stuff and the music score seldom warrants a soundtrack. However, when I see one of the leading ladies have a screaming, trembling, breathtaking orgasm...I'm moved. When that orgasm is the provided by a dominant, male or female is not important, the thrill is taken up a notch or two. Finally, I think enjoying the pleasures given by another woman doesn't make you anything except lucky if she's good at what she's doing. So Jackie, slip your favorite porn in the slot and welcome your toys into your bed and make your own "sex". Sometimes no one can "do" us like we can.


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Myriad Thu, October 18, 2007 - 10:03 PM by Myriad

I like porn... in theory. I find very few of the people in porn attractive though, and I find the settings/plot/general poor quality of the product actively unattractive. I want a movie-style sex scene that actually shows the sex. Yes, I'm shallow when it comes to porn. I want the people and the scenery to be pretty. I want nice lighting and good makeup. I want the folks on screen to either BE in love and having the best sex of their lives or be good enough actors to fake it believably.

I'm not a straight woman but I absolutely cannot see how watching two members of the OPPOSITE sex would make one any less straight. It's porn with 100% cock. Just as many straight men are fascinated with lesbian porn many straight women are fascinated with gay porn. Besides, gay porn is the only porn where the men stand a chance of being even semi attractive. In straight porn they seem to ONLY care about the size of the guy’s cock and don’t give a damn if he’s a hulking, hairy, behemoth who looks like he’s been dragged face-first behind a truck through hell with the body language of a homicidal pedophiliac.


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*~Vixxen~* Thu, October 18, 2007 - 10:26 PM by *~Vixxen~*

Honestly I am not a prude, but I find the porn industry is degrading to women.

As I recently explained to my teenage son, I think porn basically objectifies women
which in turn devalues their other important traits like intelligence. So all in all,
no matter how sexy porn may look, it isn't good for women as a whole.

I won't watch it because of that and because by paying for it I put more money
into this industry that devalues women.

Vixxen


Re: p0rn....

Thu, October 18, 2007 - 10:38 PM by Unsubsc...

I enjoy watching some porn at times but as Vixxen has said, it is often very degrading of women. I enjoy couples enjoying sexual intercours, oral sex, etc. and I find something exciting about two woman exploring each other sexually.

But I am not a fan of porn where the woman is always getting a face full of cum, etc. as it seems that it is done with a goal of humiliation rather than an act of enjoying one anothers sexuality.


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cruzzin Fri, October 19, 2007 - 2:31 AM by cruzzin

woman is always getting a face full of cum

I concur with that one - and I just hate the fascination with the degradation of women, which is an undercurrent of much porn. I dig lesbian porn, which does not seem degrading to women - of course, well, let's not go there...

But I would also concur with what was said earlier - a great R movie is actually much more exciting - because ultimately porn is passionless, and it is very difficult to suspend disbelief. A film on the other hand, a story well told, where I actually care about the actors, can really get me going..


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cruzzin Fri, October 19, 2007 - 2:36 AM by cruzzin

and ps - nothing makes you "gay" except the day you feel you wish to make that choice for yourself, including wanting to have or having occasional sex with the same sex. One of the "good" aspects of porn is it's fantasy element. I suspect that one of the reasons that many men watch "straight" porn is that they get to watch some dicks in action besides their own.

And talk about boring porn - gay porn, oh my god. I know they try to hire "straight" guys to have sex - even watched a documentary about it, where the girlfriends are at the shoot. And you can tell - boring, they just ain't into it - just going through the motions.


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Fri, October 19, 2007 - 3:19 AM by Unsubsc...

Ah, a well made "R" movie with appropriate sex is indeed much better than "slam bam, thank you ma'am" porn. Even a good movie with enough left to the imagination is excellent.

How many of us strained to see what we could through the shower curtain in the original "Pyscho" when Janet Leigh was at the Bates motel? And how many of us men had some vivid hand sex imagining ourselves in the shower with her (without the stabbing of course."


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Fri, October 19, 2007 - 4:14 AM by Unsubsc...

I don't think I like porn, but I'm not sure of the definition. I like movies that include nudity at appropriate moments, and I find some sex scenes at appropriate moments worth watching (although sometimes they are a little embarassing, especially if you like the characters - it's like watching friends through a keyhole, or something). But movies just about sex aren't worth watching, for me. I like my sex up close and personal, and don't find representations of sex on the screen particularly arousing. On the other hand, still photos of nudes I sometimes find quite attractive.
I'm kind of all over the map here, but I still think that I don't like porn, if porn is sexual activity in photos or on the screen without other plot elements.


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ali Fri, October 19, 2007 - 5:10 AM by ali

l'm a very visual girl, so l watch it, but l far prefer amateur porn to anything that requires questionable acting of any sort. Amateur porn not only often has better looking people, but is far more likely to include love, which you can often see in both parties, and in the way they move together. That is HOT, and definitely more gratifying. l'm a fan of YouPorn for that very reason...not to mention it's free. :)


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Janie Fri, October 19, 2007 - 7:11 AM by Janie

<<But I would also concur with what was said earlier - a great R movie is actually much more exciting>>

so something like 9 1/2 weeks or wild orchid (both of which have my favourite actor mickey rourke in them **drool**) is better than something one would find on youporn? i can see that. 9 1/2 weeks was the first R rated sexual movie i ever saw when i was a teen, and i've loved it ever since.


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*B* Fri, October 19, 2007 - 9:18 AM by *B*

Okay guys, if you like porn that is well made and has a great story line, check out Short Bus...it's one of the best films I've seen in a while and handles some serious sexual issues with sensitivity and humor. I highly recommend it (and there's LOTS of REAL sex in it).


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La-lisa Fri, October 19, 2007 - 9:19 AM by La-lisa

I do believe that Rourke was degrading her alot in this movie. Am I wrong? The girls like the cum in there face. I find that I learn alot from all kinds of porn, including gay. My fav was a squirting one that was absolutely amazing. I want to get a shower from them.


Re: p0rn....

Anathema Fri, October 19, 2007 - 9:25 AM by Anathema

I view porn as a tool. I don't watch it for plot or storyline, algthough of course I prefer attractive people (Violet Blue occasionalyl blogs about a filmmaker I want to check out, who does sort of goth/emo porn . . . hot alterna boyz & gfrrls getting it on. Lots of tattoos, stripy stockings, and good hair. I've seen clips, and it looks like good stuff.) But yeah, I don't watch porn for an artistic experience. I watch it to get into a certain headspace, or to enjoy that space more atmospherically or, if I'm in a hurry, because it gets me there a lot faster than self love without porn. I have a vivid imagination, but I'm very visually driven, so seeing it in my face on my laptop screen will provide that extra push over the edge. I prefer clips, loops, downloads, and sites like fuckingmachines.com, where there is no story, just hot nasty action. We are not watching these people to appreciate their acting skillz. I fast forward past foreplay and any acts that don't interest me (don't get me worng--love it in real life, but it's not nasty enough on screen), and hit "play" when things get really raunchy.

Degrading to women? Only if it's done right . . .

(Yes that's a joke. But as a former sex worker, I think it's a lot more complicated than this. Women have a lot of power in the industry, and are making a lot of cool movies. Yes, it could be better, but some of us are wired not to be turned on by soft, sweet and sensual. Degradation is hot as long as it's consensual . . .)


Re: p0rn....

Fri, October 19, 2007 - 10:35 AM by Unsubsc...

>>do you like it?<<

Yay porn! :)

>>do you watch it?<<

O' course. If I meet someone sexy during the day though, and not doing anything at night, I'll usually fantasize about that person. Porn is usually for busy days.

>>what sorts of porn do you like the best?<<

Hardcore porn. I cannot stand softcore porn. It's like dry humping someone. I like orgy porn the best, with lots of partners.

>>If you're a straight woman, does watching two women make you less straight? <<

If you're a 100% straight woman, and you're watching lesbian porn, you'd better start sliding yourself down the Kinsey scale...


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Janie Fri, October 19, 2007 - 11:01 AM by Janie

it started out innocent enough...but then she seemed to become obsessed with him. at that point he turned it around on her and took advantage of his power. it's the power struggle that turned me on in this movie.


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Myriad Fri, October 19, 2007 - 11:34 AM by Myriad

I second the "Short Bus" recomendation, though I wouldn't call it porn. It's a GREAT flick!


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CC Fri, October 19, 2007 - 11:36 AM by CC

Plesae!!! i dont know about u guys..but i love watching me some porn...i enjoy it very much so...i watch it by myself and with my hubby...like i always say..sex is a work of art...(when done right..giggle-giggle...;-) im not in to that animal porn!! HELL NO!!! (LOL) but porn dose move me..theres nothing wrong with watching 2 women together,,its beautifull..its sexy...if someone has an issue with that..maybe there not sure of them selves...im 100% women and watching 2 ladys kissing dosent change the fact that i love me some good dick(wick)


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La-lisa Fri, October 19, 2007 - 11:36 AM by La-lisa

Ahhhh yes, the power exchange. That's what I like. What is the Kinsey scale?


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La-lisa Fri, October 19, 2007 - 11:41 AM by La-lisa

Oh CC, I agree! I love me some good dick as well but, I'm 100% hetro and I've recently licked some pussy but would not call myself lesbian or very much bi for that matter. I guess I am bi though cause it was very hot!!!! I do love lesbian porn and watching it with my primary partner is very fun.


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Myriad Fri, October 19, 2007 - 11:42 AM by Myriad

The Kinsey scale is one way of measuring sexual orientation. A quick google search will yield a host of information on the subject.


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La-lisa Fri, October 19, 2007 - 11:56 AM by La-lisa

thanks for that , I'll ck it out.


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Poontangle♂♥♀ Fri, October 19, 2007 - 3:03 PM by Poontan...

I love erotica, but most porn I've seen are low-budget fuck-films. I like stuff with a plot and some humor worked throughout. I'm sort of on the soft side, I guess, as I prefer at least the illusion that the fuck-buds are lovers.

on the other note.. Just heard on Joy Brown's psych radio show, women are MUCH less homophobic than men. Apparently it's not just a cultural thing either. Whatever floats your boat, as long as you're considerate.


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Ronzoni Fri, October 19, 2007 - 3:18 PM by Ronzoni

I prefer to make my own porn, that way I have no one to blame for the amateur quality of the final product. Plus you can relive some potentially hot moments with your sweetie.

Just call me Ed Morningwood!


Re: p0rn....

Poontangle♂♥♀ Fri, October 19, 2007 - 3:27 PM by Poontan...

I read somewhere a history of the development of porn where they noted that after full-exposure and close-in shots became so common the "cum facial" was sort of the only place to go for "the money shot" I don't find the idea exciting in the least. Sure as hell doesn't make a gorgeous chick look sexier to me. Kind of stupid as a finale. Yes, there IS that exploitation and objectification angle of the porn industry, but..... that is the case for nearly EVERY commercial venture.. present sex as a bait.. and they're NOT talking about "relationships" or "whole-person appeal". Nope.. they push TITS, ASS and long legs.. and especially where the two legs join. But, you never actually get the sex candy, do you? For something as natural as sex, it amazes me how distorted we can be about it. What the fuck is a photo of a sexy naked lady doing in a brown wrapper up there next to cigarettes and booze?


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Myriad Fri, October 19, 2007 - 7:17 PM by Myriad

I agree that some porn is degrading to women, and that is the focus of some pornography.
I would like to point out, however, that women having men cum on their face is only degrading if you think of cum as "dirty".
I don't. Always thought of the face job as a way to physically connect your sex and her smiling face. Come on, we're always telling guys "look at my face not my.... “ Sex is, to some extent, about objectification. I'm having sex with folks because of their personality but I'm not having sex WITH their personality, and if there isn't some object about them that gets me horny then why am I having sex with them rather than maintaining a pleasant, deep, meaningful, and completely platonic relationship? So the object of desire in a facial is the face. How is that bad?


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ali Fri, October 19, 2007 - 7:23 PM by ali

Okay guys, if you like porn that is well made and has a great story line, check out Short Bus...it's one of the best films I've seen in a while and handles some serious sexual issues with sensitivity and humor. I highly recommend it (and there's LOTS of REAL sex in it).
~~~~~~~~~~

l own Short Bus. LOVE that movie! Though the man-on-man sex may not be so pleasant for the het men. Just fair warning.


Re: p0rn....

ali Fri, October 19, 2007 - 7:33 PM by ali

I won't watch it because of that and because by paying for it I put more money
into this industry that devalues women.
~~~~~~~~~~

Okay, then, but what of amateur porn in which both parties love each other, and are turned on by the idea of filming themselves for their own voyeuristic pleasure and for voyeurs worldwide?

What about porn where women are tops and in control? lsn't that degrading to the men?

What if l chose to do it because it's what l'm damn good at and can make a boatload of cash doing?

You seem to be viewing this from a radically feminist or sex negative viewpoint, when there's some pretty empowering porn out there - just not the kind you may be thinking of.


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ali Fri, October 19, 2007 - 7:35 PM by ali

What Myriad said....WORD!


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ali Fri, October 19, 2007 - 7:59 PM by ali

Hey Josh...l'm curious as to what you believe the difference between erotica and porn is. l'm having a very passionate debate with someone who is reading over my shoulder and he doesn't seems to believe they are different because both are created for sexually gratifying purposes. l think there are different purposes in each though both may be designed with the same goal in mind. There's the possibility erotica's more text than visual and porn is more visually inclined. What are your thoughts on it?


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Poontangle♂♥♀ Fri, October 19, 2007 - 10:01 PM by Poontan...

To me erotica has an elegance that porn doesn't, and I think the degradation or brutality of women is an element that distinguishes the two, for me, especially in still photographs. Admittedly, there are women who get a thrill from such treatment, as there are men who do too. To me, erotica celebrates and elevates sexuality. Burlesque is fun. Something left to the imagination. Porn to me is more like, Wham! Bam! fuck, fuck, suck, and more fuck and suck, little plot or humor.... with a din of cheesey music playing. But I have seen some exceptions. Erotica is like a gorgeous woman in fine lingerie with a strut that just OMG grabs you. Porn is more like a crotch stuck in my face before they even whet my appetite.


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firemermaid Fri, October 19, 2007 - 10:02 PM by firemer...

I think the biggest difference are:

Porn is first & foremost about getting to your wallet. Usually w/ some of to all the compromises, both artistically & ethically, which that implies.

Porn is de-humanizing, while erotica, even very explicit erotica has some soul to it.

I've always loved erotica. Written & visual- I've even created some, performed some pretty raunchy poetry & theater, & organized events around it. Even if the stuff that's not to my taste- I'm glad it can be out there.
Altho' sometimes I am guilty of using the term "porn" when I mean erotica, on the whole, I'm not a big fan of the porn industry. And most of it is just awful... tho' I agree there are a few exceptions. Those start being good enough to be called erotica, IMO, tho'...

I like a LOT of explicit, in yr face stuff, even if it's a little raw sometimes. But trite formulas, fake bodies & collagen lips that all look the same, bad acting- it's like fast food as opposed to real food. Sure, it may taste good in the moment. Sure. people make money (kudos to Jenna Jameson for taking more control of her career... even if I don't really like her films). But I think it rots us inside, & isn't sustainable. Porn is BIG business, & it's also ripe for exploitation of some of the most vulnerable, messed-up people around. Most often very young people.

I own a copy of "Short Bus", too!
God/dess bless John Cameron Mitchell & his collaborators, who made the kind of film so many of us wish we could about sex & the people that have it. (Except mine would have faeries, & satyrs & stuff, & some of it would be outdoors...)


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Myriad Sat, October 20, 2007 - 2:21 AM by Myriad

Huh... I always thought porn explicitly depicted sex while erotica did not. "Erotic photography" has no penetration. When penetration is involved it hits censorship standards and becomes porn.
If I use the word "erotica" though I'm talking about literature, and some literature erotica is most certainly wham, bam, slam, fucky-sucky, and degrading of the women in it (whether intentionally and erotically as in the Sleeping Beauty series or unintentionally as in.... well.. the collections of Dear Penthouse letters) and some of it is SOO sickly sweet and romantic that it falls more into the "romance novel" category. Yeah, those books with the men in lacy shirts that your maiden aunt reads are soft-core porno books; cheesy, hackneyed, pulp-fiction smut. Now THOSE are degrading to women!


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ali Sat, October 20, 2007 - 12:45 PM by ali

Clarifications:

l don't think all amateur porn involves two people who love each other, it's just the particular example l chose to use as an exception.
l also don't think a woman topping is degrading to the man, but it's a point of perspective.

Just to be clear.


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Poontangle♂♥♀ Sat, October 20, 2007 - 1:13 PM by Poontan...

When I read Myriad's "Huh... I always thought porn explicitly depicted sex while erotica did not. "Erotic photography" has no penetration. When penetration is involved it hits censorship standards and becomes porn"

I realized that though I have my own personal definition, that is the actual difference, as most of what I personnally consider erotica doesn't graphically depict the sex act itself.


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Schirin Sat, October 20, 2007 - 2:35 PM by Schirin

<Honestly I am not a prude, but I find the porn industry is degrading to women. >

I often find it disturbing that in music you often hear men refer to themselves as "pimps" like it's some badge of honor to force women to have sex just to line their pockets with cash. Sick. And then there's the idea that a woman has to be a great cook but a "ho" in the bedroom to have value. The newest thing that I find disturbing is that of men referring to a woman as a "baby girl" (and vice versa, "baby boy.") God, we're all adults people. How is that sexy to refer your mate as a child? Blech!


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firemermaid Sat, October 20, 2007 - 5:22 PM by firemer...

Yeah, but what about my view that what separates porn from erotica, is first & foremost about money? & that porn to lack soul, be trite, predictable... & usually dehumanizing? For men, too... even the viewer. The viewer is a wallet. Knee-jerk fast-food.

Years ago, a very sex-postive lover told me that while he used to jerk off to porn a lot, he had stopped. He said " I didn't like what it was doing to me."
I didn't fully understand, until years later... I found myself feeling the same way, after I saw a lot more porn than I'd ever been exposed to before, online. While some of it turned me on, I found myself becoming numb to it, even bored. Because it's fast food- not nourishing, soulful... really interesting. It's all about the meat... & the lowest common $-making denominator.

I think both the easy $ factor, & the schizy issues the majority of cultures have about sex... And I agree about a lot of those bad "romance" bodice rippers, even tho' sure, I've gotten off on a few... Mostly before I discovered better stuff. I've always called those "girl porn."

I have plenty of books that fall into the explicit erotica category. Erotica is traditionally also visual. There's a ton of explicit art & photography out there that's got a lot more to it than knee-jerk porn. The photos of Micheal Rosen, Violet Blue, & David Steinberg, for example. Japanese "pillowbook" woodblock prints are pretty damn intense. All those Taschen press books... Ever seen the 2 "Erotica Universalis" books? I have both, with explicit international art dating from pre-medieval times.

I think of the "Sleeping Beauty" series as erotica. Other examples: the raunchy stories in the Olympia Press collections, the late lamented "Libido" magazine, & a the work on online mags & sites like "Nerve", "Clean Sheets", & "The Erotica Readers & Writers Association".
I've really like a few well-made films I've seen w/ real, attractive people in relationships, of varied looks & personalities having clearly depicted sex. I've also seen a few more interesting plot-based films that while not great, weren't bad, & tried for some more artistic integrity & humanity, better treatment of women... like "Cafe Flesh", & the Femme films directed by former porn actress Candida (what a lousy name!) Royale.
I wish there were really good films, that just included some real sex as part of the story... Some European films lie "Sex & Lucia" or "Betty Blue" come close to that, even if the sex isn't completely real.

Plenty of erotica may not be to my taste, but that doesn't mean it lacks artistic merit... even as it's meant to arouse, maybe even shock. Like I said, I'm glad it's out there.

I don't feel that way about much of the porn industry, or it's product. I'm not much in favor of censorship, but I'd like to see that often exploitive industry regulated more tightly.



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S. Archer Sat, October 20, 2007 - 7:25 PM by S. Archer

I think pornography is like any other art form - much is probably negligable, but some of it might speak to you...


Erotica is what makes me hot. Porn is what makes *you* hot.

Kim Sat, October 20, 2007 - 10:13 PM by Kim

It's a totally specious distinction.

I love Ms. Device's twist on what Woody Allen said about sex: "It's only dirty if you're doing it right." A former lover and I used to kid around about how oppressive and degrading our lovemaking was. I'd pretend to apologize for exploiting and oppressing her, she'd say, "Yeah. Now shut up and oppress me some more." Does porn degrade women? Does answering someone's phone or cleaning their toilet or watching their kids or bagging their groceries degrade women? Speaking strictly for myself, if I could earn what those jobs pay in a week by spending half a day getting fucked and taking a load of jism in my face, I'd take the latter.

I haves my aesthetic preferences, about porn, yes I does. What doesn't matter: the genders of the participants or the precise details of their bodies, whether the play is kinky or vanilla. What does matter is: do they seem to be enjoying themselves? Do I get the feeling that they'd be doing this for fun, even if they weren't getting paid? I don't really care what's really going on, just how it makes me feel. There's a scene in a recent video involving transexual performers that I didn't much like despite the fact that I've played with one of the actors... the other one didn't look like he was having much fun. I discussed this with the producer, who assured me that the actor was loving every minute. But that's not how it came across to me, or my partner when she watched the flick with me later.


Take a look at the books in any airport bookstore or drugstore. How many of them are really special or interesting? Same holds true of porn. Shelf after shelf of stuff that's not particularly worth your time. Go to Good Vibrations (or their website). Check out Blowfish's web site. Almost everything that they have has *some* quality to it that makes it stand out. It may or may not work for you, but they don't stock it just because it's what the distributor sent that month. A real person (or several real persons) looked at it and found it worthwhile. With any luck, the catalog description will communicate that and you can get a notion of whether you'd find it worthwhile.

There was a lovely documentary/porn called "Shooting Porn," concerning the gay porn biz. One segment concerned the actors who work in gay porn but who identify as straight. "Gay for pay" is how they're referred to. A tiny digression here: many gay people feel that if you have gay sex, you're *gay* damnit, no excuses, no ailbis. You can understand their reasons for feeling that way, so many men will hide in the closet, have sex with men, but deny it. Think of Larry Craig, think of Roy Cohen. But still, a job's a job, sex is sex, and who's to say that these actors aren't really het. The director challenged a couple of these gay actors by asking if they'd work in a straight porno. They all said "Sure, if the pay was right." The director's response: "Would that make you straight?" (None of them thought so.)

So no, your same-gender porn viewing doesn't make you less straight. It might open your eyes to possibilities you hadn't considered.


Re: Erotica is what makes me hot. Porn is what makes *you* hot.

firemermaid Sat, October 20, 2007 - 11:59 PM by firemer...

Very true, it's pretty subjective... the "what's art?" debate is always that way.
As I said, I don't have to find that something is to my specific taste, to believe it has some artistic merit, & deserves to be called erotica.
I also care about how stuff is produced, & w/ what intent. For that reason, I find some things that are more on the porny side less or even inoffensive, even if they're not my style.

There IS a real difference between fast food, & a nourishing meal of real food. A little fast food won't kill you, but a lot of it will rot you from the inside out, & numb yr palette. In addition, the industry that creates it, is riddled w/ exploitation of people & the earth.
Same w/ the majority of porn. Many of us choose to be conscious of where our attention & money goes, what it supports. Why should it be different regarding what we consume sexually? Donald Trump makes a shitload of money, so does Wal-Mart. So does knee-jerk porn, which often leaves us hungry... Addiction is good for business.
It's a personal choice- I'm just pointing out that that it's no different than any other way we nourish ourselves, or vote w/ our dollars & attention.

Yup, there are plenty of exploitative low-paying jobs, especially in the pink-collar sector... I've sure worked some of 'em... But I do think, that there's a real difference btwn cleaning houses, & exposing the raw intimacy of sex (especially w/ the kind of harsh, mean, piece-o-meat copy that accompanies most porn) to a ton of unknown strangers. That's not the same as more private kinky wildness w/ yr chosen lovers- even an orgy w/ people you've chosen to be around.
Porn is very often something that the performers have little say in the editing & distribution of... often even the content. That stuff, once recorded, can be out there indefinitely, & w/ the advent of the 'Net, is SO widely available. And since the majority of porn performers, especially the females, are very young, sometimes they're that much more vulnerable to manipulation.
Before anyone jumps all over my case, please keep in mind I'm NOT saying that's true of ALL sexworkers, the people involved in creating & distributing sexual content, or performers.
Some are informed, intelligent, powerful people, who make a real contribution, while entertaining & turning us on.

But we all know that's very often not the scenario. And the money-shot slash n' burn, instant-gratification porn business, as opposed to erotica, is that much more prone to the sleazy greed factor. And yeah- the Mafia, & a lot of real creeps are, still involved w/ some of it, too, especially the distribution end of things. You wanna support that?

A world of difference from say, a Suicide Girl, who does at least have lots of say over content, & a chance to represent herself as more of a person. I'll bet the young women who pose on that site, are a lot less likely to regret it later. I guess that's also true of many women who have their own porn-style websites... but hey, it's still all about the wallet...
Nothing wrong w/ making some money, or being explicit, in my view. There's a lot of unhealthy, de-humanizing disconnect in our society regarding sex. A real dualism, born mostly of various kinds of repression. Why keep reinforcing it? Why not keep human feeling, creativity & soul in mind, too? Most of us know, that those things can exist right alongside gratifyingly fierce, wild raunch. And that they enrich all of it.


Re: p0rn....

Sun, October 21, 2007 - 7:35 AM by Unsubsc...

>>Hey Josh...l'm curious as to what you believe the difference between erotica and porn is. <<

Of course I'm not Josh. I just have two cents...

Erotica is porn that you like. Porn that you don't like is called porn. All "erotica" is is a softening word. Just like : I'm "impassioned", other people are "sluts". I'm "motivated", other people are "greedy".

People enjoy erotica/porn to indulge in their passions. No one person's passion is superior or inferior to another person's passion. As long as you enjoy consensual, sane (like not cutting off limbs) passions, it's all good.


Re: p0rn....

Anathema Sun, October 21, 2007 - 9:03 AM by Anathema

Joshua exactly summed up what I always say . . . erotica is the boring artsy stuff, porn is the hot stuff that works. When I'm not horny, I can appreciate Johnny Depp-looking guys in sexy outfits tracing their languid fingers down women's well-muscled backs. It's aesthetically pleasing. But when I actually want to masturbate myself to earth-shattering orgasms? That stuff is oh so tedious. Give me gynecological shots of giant penises thundering in an out of bodily orifices any time. Love it how we're all so different!


Re: p0rn....

Gabsta Sun, October 21, 2007 - 8:13 PM by Gabsta

<do you like it? do you watch it? what sorts of porn do you like the best? if you're a straight woman, does watching two women make you less straight?>

Yes
Yes
Movies, literotica, listening to the neighbours - lmao
REgarding the women - depends on whether it turns you on or not I guess. I can only comment on myself. I would say I was 80% hetro with a good 20% lesbian in me and I TOTALLY get off on watching two woman go at it *sigh*


Re: p0rn....

JP Sun, October 21, 2007 - 9:02 PM by JP

Yes!
Yes!
But the bests are the ones make for ourselves.
Over all I think that just having the memory of making the film brings out the depth of the original “O” and may in fact just intensify the next one.
Just my two cents ladies comments welcomed.


Re: Erotica is what makes me hot. Porn is what makes *you* hot.

S. Archer Sun, October 21, 2007 - 11:19 PM by S. Archer

I would agree with you, fm, for the most part.
Mass-produced porn is sort of like TV: ultimately it's pretty formulaic and just shooting for the ratings, sales, dollars, etc.
Still, nonetheless, a gem sometimes comes along.


Re: Erotica is what makes me hot. Porn is what makes *you* hot.

firemermaid Mon, October 22, 2007 - 2:24 AM by firemer...

Very true. Like a flower in manure, lol.


Re: p0rn....

Anathema Mon, October 22, 2007 - 11:31 AM by Anathema

Oh, and I guess I'm a gay man, because I **really** enjoy watching all-boy gay porn. I mean, if you are what you watch . . .


Re: Erotica is what makes me hot. Porn is what makes *you* hot.

S. Archer Mon, October 22, 2007 - 1:52 PM by S. Archer

I should paint my TV to look like a skunk.

Ok - is that porn hut still there on Garfield, between, oh...what was it 6th and 7th Streets?

I forget what it was called. Something horrible. Some horrible pun.
It used to be a great example of what was wrong and yet good about porn.

It would have to have been remodeled by now.
Either that or burned down.

Anyhoo ~ here's what I'll call The S. Archer Porn Challenge (cue trumpets!): go in there in the spirit of research and put a dollar or two in one of their multi-channel video booths. Bring a friend. Report on any impressions, favorable or not so favorable.
This isn't specifically directed to you , fm, it's probably meant more to just be a funny idea, but if anybody wants to pick up that particularly sticky gauntlet, more power to you, brave pioneer!

I'll consider (at least in the rhetorical sense) any alternative counter-proposals.


Re: p0rn....

Poontangle♂♥♀ Mon, October 22, 2007 - 3:26 PM by Poontan...

It was also very revealing, reading ethical implications of my own definition of how pron differs from erotica, how much of a buzz-word "porn" is for me, I had not really realized that.


Re: p0rn....

Mr. Indie Mon, October 22, 2007 - 8:43 PM by Mr. Indie

Well porn produced by the "industry", I find dirty, cheap, sleazy and usually lame....

Amateur porn is a completely different issue.

Sex is fun, sex is amazing, sex is spiritual, sex brings out the adrenaline, and sharpens the senses. Sex is natural...

Do I enjoy watching amateurs enjoy themselves, and doing crazy things? Yes... Why on earth people are so afraid to experience first hand all the amazing variations of sex mystifies me....

Can porn be objectifying? Can it be degrading? Yes... So can Wal Mart, and Budweiser Commercials, and Fundamentalists...

It can also be crazy fun and really get your fantasies flowing... Personally I like to view real people, who aren't paid letting themselves go, and enjoying real fantasies... what ever those are. There are many things that I am simply not into... but other people may find them exciting as hell...

Personally a movie like "Wild Orchid" or some NC 17 movie... bores me to tears... My own personal sex life makes those kinds of movies look like 5th graders kissing on the swings at recess....


Re: p0rn....

Janie Mon, October 22, 2007 - 9:34 PM by Janie

some people call it yaoi (pronounced YOW-wee) you can find the information here en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yaoi

there's a convention coming up in california called yaoicon. bois kissing bois everywhere. **le sigh**


Re: p0rn....

Poontangle♂♥♀ Tue, October 23, 2007 - 5:45 PM by Poontan...

"Of course I'm not Josh. I just have two cents... Erotica is porn that you like. Porn that you don't like is called porn."

The funny thing is my "personalized" def pretty much proved your theory.

Now, what exactly is "smut"? lmao


Re: p0rn....

Poontangle♂♥♀ Tue, October 23, 2007 - 5:49 PM by Poontan...

So... to answer Janie's original post. Do I like porn?

Some... but I have issues. =)


Re: p0rn....

Pamela Thu, October 25, 2007 - 11:18 AM by Pamela

I caught my stepson watching porn on our computer. My main concern was at his age (15 or 16)...he would develop an unrealistic view of women and women's sexuality. But as for degrading to women...I go back and forth on that one. A woman can be totally enjoying nasty 'porn' sex that may appear degarading to others...but then again that should be in private and behind closed doors (or at least where a cop/others can't see you). So a woman that puts it all out there on the internet probably does have some esteem issues.


Re: p0rn....

Ms. Gnostic Sparkletoes Thu, October 25, 2007 - 11:57 PM by Ms. Gno...

IMHO **porn** i.e. of the video tape and DVD genre from *adult* stores are not appealing to me as it is simply *sex* with no story or plot around it ...

I do enjoy mainstream movies that may be NC-17 or *R* rating when the sex part of the movie is coupled with an actual story and plot..

Examples for me are:

"Mating Habits of the Earthbound Humans"

"The Unbearable Lightness of Being"

"Better than Chocolate"

"Nine and a Half Weeks"

"The Lover"

"Henry & June"

Elaine