I need a little help here. I've been getting nowhere trying to explain to a guy why it is kind of lame to use "f*#king" this and "s*%t, bi@%h" that, as if they were prepositional phrases in every other sentence. What do sexy women have to say about guys or even women constantly using profanity in "regular" conversation? In intimate moments really graphic phrases can sometimes kick things up. But this particular person seems to be clueless. I am not saying they are "bad" people, but their language does have an impact on how they are perceived, and I assume especially by women. The only response I've gotten from them is, "If they can't get passed that, f*%k 'em!"
":^|
":^|
-
Re: Profanity
Sun, June 15, 2008 - 4:37 PMTho' long out west, I'm from metro NY, where Fuck is commonly used as a verb, adjective, noun, & qualifier. Very useful for emphasis. Yup, sometimes nothing but a good "fuckin' _________" will do for conveying intensity of feeling. I cheerfully engage in it. Some of my friends do so even more. If someone is very sensitive to that, I'm going to feel weirdly buttoned-up around them.
Some profanity in regular convo doesn't bother me, UNLESS it's routinely being used aggressively to intimdate, or demean, or start fights .
However- there are exceptions:
One, is that there are some occasions, where letting the profanity fly is just not appropriate. Anyone who can't keep a pretty good lid on it then has to learn how. Manners are to ease comfort levels & smooth things along, & that's a good skill set to have.
Another, is around young children. I'm not going to freak out if they hear an occasional curse fly out of my mouth. But really, they hear it enough places these days, & children must be civilized a bit to make their way in the world. It's best to encourage that they learn some restraint, mostly to give them a chance to develop a REAL vocabulary.
Which brings me to the last example...Plenty of adults haven;'t developed any decent range of expressive words at all... & they curse ALL the time. It's boring, limits the spirit, & takes all the ooomph out of a perfectly good curse like "fuck.". These folks need a hiatus from cussing, & an effort made to learn some new words. -
-
Re: Profanity
Sun, June 15, 2008 - 4:41 PM<<Plenty of adults haven;'t developed any decent range of expressive words at all... & they curse ALL the time. It's boring, limits the spirit, & takes all the ooomph out of a perfectly good curse like "fuck.". These folks need a hiatus from cussing, & an effort made to learn some new words.>>
Agreed. It simply gets old real fast.
-
-
Re: Profanity
Sun, June 15, 2008 - 4:51 PMMeh. I curse like a sailor so it obviously doesn't bother me. I DO try to tailor my communication style to the company I'm keeping (I curse a lot more when I'm hanging out with my gutter punk friends than when I'm at a Love Tribe party, for example) but words are words and if you're using them correctly to express cogent and interesting ideas then I will forgive a limited and vulgar vocabulary. I get much more annoyed by people who can only talk about one subject. -
-
Re: Profanity
Sun, June 15, 2008 - 5:38 PM>"I DO try to tailor my communication style to the company I'm keeping (I curse a lot more when I'm hanging out with my gutter punk friends than when I'm at a Love Tribe party, for example)"
That's cool, Myriad. I'm not talking about situations where it is not unexpected, but when you introduce an associate to someone who is unfamiliar and *obviously* stunned everytime they are hit with another round. I do consider myself "old-school" but there is at least some residual of what we once considered protocol when addressing women.
If I am interested in a persons thoughts, I can bear with any kind of vocabulary that person uses. But if I am not particularly interested, or turned-off, it becomes a din if there is too much repetition of ANY phrase. -
-
Re: Profanity
Sun, June 15, 2008 - 5:46 PMWhen I worked in the Jail with the men, they would even try to stop cursing in front of most of the female officers. So I'm thinking there is a certain level of protocol about swearing in front of women...even in the population of people who swear the most.
-
-
-
Re: Profanity
Sun, June 15, 2008 - 5:44 PMThat wouldn't work to well in my life since I don't feel comfortable with that about my sons. Though I do have plenty of friends who swear. and I swear when my boys and people I don't know or people's parents or people who don't talk that way are around. The thing for me is...if you use it all the time you wear it out. It doesn't have any punch anymore. I think they work better as words reserved to show intensity of message...that is totally lost if every other word is fuck.
-
Re: Profanity
Sun, June 15, 2008 - 9:47 PMI have always prided myself on using as little profanity as possible. Also, for many years I worked with both the public, and with children, so it paid to use proper English, diction, and no foul words. I always got high marks from my customers for keeping my cool in the face of really difficult people or situations.
Of course, even I couldn't be a gentleman all the time, so now and then when I'd stub my toe or something, I used foreign words. German is excellent for cursing, but Klingon is better! Most people I dealt with knew I was making an effort to keep the air clean, and they appreciated it.
My motto has become, "Anybody can talk dirty. It takes a real man not to." -
-
Re: Profanity
Mon, June 16, 2008 - 4:14 PMHmmm. I got out of trouble with this mixup in vocabulary once in the 3rd grade. I got caught saying "Shit" or something. The school guidebook said, specifically "No profanity" and that's what they showed me in the principal's office. I said, "But I did'nt use profanity" Yes you did" they said.
I said, "No, i used vulgarity, and it states nothing about that in the school hand book, profanity is things related to God, i.e, Jesus Christ, Goddamn, etc. Your book says nothing about vulgarity or obscenity." I got away with it, but a week later a new handbook was released covering all the bases.
Using swearing all the time and ineffectively is just lazy. Now, cursing well....that's an art.
-
Re: Profanity
Wed, June 18, 2008 - 11:10 AMI remember when my daughter was born I cleaned up my vocabulary overnight.
Then when she was in 6th? grade, she came home pissed off because her teacher wouldn't let the kids use swear words in class. So I started talking to her in schoolyard language - shocked the fuck out of her. She got it real fast that cuss words are not appropriate in all situations!
-
-
Re: Profanity
Mon, June 16, 2008 - 5:25 PMI think you really first have to look at what profanity is as well as the application in a social context for the terms and Phases.
Just for shits n giggles I popped up wikipedia
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Profanity
The use of certain terms in modern speech is not only relatively normal in some subgroups and subcultures it is expected. In other structures it is not.
To me to demand a person not swear when it is clearly part of their mode of speech seems to me as arrogant and demanding as if they were to demand you tolerate it. Seems to me to flow both ways. To demand the change would be in essence prior restraint of free speech and profanity is considered protected speech. In other words yes legally you can tell a cop "Fuck you Pig"
If it is significant and important enough for him to modify his behavior then fine. Otherwise it is up to you to decide if he is worth you modifying what you consider obscene and or vulgar.
Me personally I use modes of speech based on my audience. If someone objects especially strenuously I am unlikely to modify my pattern <except for My Mom> Mostly because I have little use for those that are easily offended.
JSin
-
Re: Profanity
Tue, June 17, 2008 - 6:23 AMPoon - Personally I share Myriad's take on it, the content of what people say is more important to me than how they say it (not that I don't appreciate chatting with a silver tongued devil or someone who's a clever conversationalist). Not only do I enjoy and accept swearing, I actually really enjoy learning colloquial swear words and expressions. Of course, in Canada "fuck" tends to be used as punctuation by most people under 50 in most non-formal situations really. One wouldn't do it in front of someone's church going great auntie who's just made a "lovely" pea specked tomato aspic for Sunday lunch. And I'd suspect that in most office cultures it's unacceptable (but so is any non-bland form of expression!). That said, it's useful to be able to tailor one's behavior to the context one's in and to have a bit of social sophistication if you want to be able to travel in a variety of situations and worlds since there are many class issues associated with swearing - it's a very bourgeois preoccupation historically (and even today really) since it separates the working classes from the middle ones who aspire to climb further up the social ladder (or make sure those on the lower rungs stay below them).
Saying derogatory or sexist things is another matter - but then I'd prefer to know up front if someone's got issues with women or people not just like them so I'm not sure if you're doing anyone a favor by teaching him to hide these attitudes if he's got 'em. There's some basic respect that's at issue there, not just a matter of language (once again, it's about the content for me).
Ultimately, regarding your friend, if he doesn't care and want to change the way he speaks - even to pick up more women or to "fit in" which seems to be the point of trying to get him to change - then it's really up to him. If he's not interested in women who'd reject him for swearing or for being from the "wrong" class then clearly the swearing actually serves a useful weeding out purpose for him. My question is, why does it bother *you* so much? Do you think your friend is being misperceived? Or do you find his behavior embarrassing to you?
-
-
Re: Profanity
Wed, June 18, 2008 - 11:43 AM>"If he's not interested in women who'd reject him for swearing or for being from the "wrong" class then clearly the swearing actually serves a useful weeding out purpose for him. My question is, why does it bother *you* so much? Do you think your friend is being misperceived? Or do you find his behavior embarrassing to you?"
As he's expressed it, he feels pretty much the same. I just feel like he's limiting his choices, but it is true that it is more genuine representation of himself, since that is how he rolls. He's much younger than I, so I'm not exactly in the same cultural group. It does seem like there's a big difference in what we'd consider careless use of "foul language". I am not even sure he'd agree there was such a thing.... unless he was in a church. But exactly why would it be inappropriate in a church but not elsewhere? Why ISN'T it ok to curse around children? At some point the reasoning breaks down. No, I'm not embarrassed by his language. I'm not responsible for it.
-
-
Re: Profanity
Wed, June 18, 2008 - 1:28 PMPoon - Perhaps it's a generational thing... I don't personally think swearing around kids is such a big deal. Kids start their own kiddie version pretty early on ("poo" being a favorite that matures into "shit"). Expressing unspoken OR spoken racism, sexism or homophobia, or otherwise modeling hate for children, seems like a much bigger deal to me than saying "fuck" instead of "fandangle" (or whatever church lady version of swearing is chosen). At times outspoken prejudice has been perfectly acceptable, condoned and promoted by the church and other institutions. Besides, what is considered "foul" language changes over time and in different cultures (often even within the same country).
I'll refrain from swearing out of consideration for someone else in certain situations, or for political reasons in a job or institutional context, but it's not because I think it's wrong or a big deal.
-
-