overconfidence and arrogance

topic posted Sun, June 15, 2008 - 11:49 AM by  Gilgamesh
Hey Sexy woman,
Assuming that both male and female have the same emotional capacity and capabilities and understanding that any other ideology is inherently sexist. When is a woman grossly overconfident or considered arrogant? Can a woman not exhibit these particular emotional traits? If so who would you give as an example?
posted by:
Gilgamesh
SF Bay Area
  • Re: overconfidence and arrogance

    Sun, June 15, 2008 - 1:22 PM
    Think back to high school (only because we hadn't yet become quite so complicated in our social roles then so groups are easier to identify) and remember that group of girls who were pretty and busty and dated the football team. Yeah. They're arrogant and overconfident and cocky.
    Women in our culture are not encouraged to be cocky. We are taught from a very young age that humility is attractive in a woman and cockiness definitely is not. As a result women who are arrogant tend to express it a little differently, and a touch more subtly, than their male counterparts who have been told that being bold and confident is desirable in a man. But arrogant women are out there.
    They're the pampered princesses who think they're too good to even talk to you. They're the snooty intellectuals who have no time for anybody who hasn't memorized the complete works of Marlowe. They're the holier-than-thou matrons who look down their noses at everybody because they KNOW we're all immoral sinners. Yep, those are all different kinds of arrogance in my eyes, and they are all equally unattractive.
  • Re: overconfidence and arrogance

    Sun, June 15, 2008 - 1:23 PM
    I think women get hit with the bitch thing when they are confident much less over confident. I don't see any reason why there wouldn't be women as well as men who are grossly overconfident or arrogant...but I think it is shown less with women because confidence is not as encouraged in women. Or maybe it is but so often has the catch of "but not tooo confident" too confident is seen as a bitch as stuck up, as thinking you are better than other people. It's so ingrained in people that women who are otherwise strong women who believe in equality will still get all weird about thinking too highly of themselves.

    I don't get your last question. an example of what?
    • Re: overconfidence and arrogance

      Sun, June 15, 2008 - 4:38 PM
      at the risk of injecting politics into the discussion... Hilary Clinton was overconfident about her ability to win the nomination, and arrogant about her appeal to voters, in my opinion, and it bit her on the well-clothed ass.
      • Re: overconfidence and arrogance

        Sun, June 15, 2008 - 5:02 PM
        Hmmm... Darkly, Hillary (it's 2 Ls for women) won some important early rounds- they all crow when they do that. She's learned to fight hard in the boy's yard, & is sometimes more in macha mode because of it. C'mon, this brilliant woman has had to deal w/ endless crap about her cookie recipes & her hair-do! And who her indiscrete horny husband was screwing. Wile Obama can, to some extent, talk about racism as a factor when hit w/ it, if Hillary does the same regarding sexism, she risks being labled a man-hater. It's crazy. Damed if she do & damed if she don't.

        She's done something no U.S. woman has ever done before- run a serious, well-funded, possibly winning campaign for president. Isn't Obama's ass well-clothed, too? Give her a fuckin' break!
        Most women who make it to the top in traditionally male professions learn to be Iron Maidens to some extent, & will continue to do so... till we balance things out & re-write the paradigm. Even if she hasn't been yr candidate, rejoice for the barrier she broke.

        Thank God/dess for her macha. Because people who are in the arena of doing seriously world-shaking things, breaking molds, taking great risks, HAVE to have some arrogance beyond confidence. To be sure, it's a double-edged sword. Megalomania & narrowing of vision, getting cutthroat are big pitfalls. But w/o the people can can call on that kind of ego in service to a cause, ideals, we'd be in big trouble.
        A good leader has to listen, & compromise. But sometimes it can be a bitch to get there, when the contest is so poorly designed.
        • Re: overconfidence and arrogance

          Mon, June 16, 2008 - 7:36 PM
          I wanted to like her. I wanted to give her a chance. But her behavior in Michigan was just too much for me to swallow.

          Women of power: Golda Meir, Indira Gandhi, Margaret A-something who was Bill's sec-of-state, whatsherface in today's Germany... Strong women leaders in politics I like. Hillary... not so much. I've tried. I just don't like her.
          • Re: overconfidence and arrogance

            Mon, June 16, 2008 - 7:40 PM
            I'm in the same boat. She's also got the same glint of crazy int he corner of her eye that I warned everybody about when they elected Bush. Zealots are zealots, and she has the fanatic gleam. Yeah, it's cool to have a woman run for office, but I won't vote for her JUST because she's a woman.
          • Re: overconfidence and arrogance

            Mon, June 16, 2008 - 11:49 PM
            That isn't even close to what I asked.

            Madeline Albright? Ooooh I love her. I wish she could run.

            I didn't say you had to like her. I was most wondering if she really has done anything that the guys don't do all of the time but because she's not a guy she gets slammed and because they are guys they get to be the political version of used car salesman and people eat it up.
      • Re: overconfidence and arrogance

        Sun, June 15, 2008 - 5:48 PM
        I'm curious if you could pick out things she did that were different from what all or most of the men who have run campaigns in the last 10 years have done.
        • Re: overconfidence and arrogance

          Sun, June 15, 2008 - 6:28 PM
          Hmmm.. a couple of examples of arrogance in women:

          Condaleeza Rice. Definitely. Deliberate blinders. God's on her side. George Bush told her so.

          Nasty-as-hell right-winger media pundit Ann Colter. Shes tells out-right lies at least as well as Rush Limbaugh. I think she's Dick Cheney & Karl Rove's love child.

          Some of those ladies at the DMV. They're evil.
  • Re: overconfidence and arrogance

    Sun, June 15, 2008 - 5:11 PM
    As for everyday life... I think arrogance vs confidence is (or should be) pretty much defined the same in all genders.
    Marianne Williamson said- "You don't serve the world by being small."

    It's OK to shine, & to revel in it. As long as there's room for others to shine, too. As long as there's integrity behind it. As long as we can listen. Confidence is generous & inclusive, confidence is engaged w/ the world, confidence is interesting. Confidence is sexy & charismatic.

    Arrogance is self-involved, it's narrow, excluding, insecure, ultimately dull. And frequently dangerous in it's blind disregard... we need only look at our present administration to see a sad example.
  • Re: overconfidence and arrogance

    Sun, June 15, 2008 - 9:49 PM
    "When is a woman grossly overconfident or considered arrogant?"

    When she does something without regard to another person's feelings or wishes. The moment she does that it means that she considers herself more important than those around her.
    • Re: overconfidence and arrogance

      Mon, June 16, 2008 - 4:57 PM
      <<"When is a woman grossly overconfident or considered arrogant? When she does something without regard to another person's feelings or wishes.">>

      I'm not sure I agree with that statement, TEL. I decided to have my tubes tied irregardless of the fact that my husband did not want me to. I don't consider that arrogant in the least. I know a woman who left the church her family raised her in, even though they vehemently lobbied for her to change her mind, and threatened to cut her out of their lives. I don't believe even her family considered her arrogant.

      I would say the line of arrogance lies more in the area of where others' rights are trampled, not simply their wishes.
  • Re: overconfidence and arrogance

    Mon, June 16, 2008 - 8:43 PM
    Female entitlement drives me crazy. I mean women who have no honor, don't pull their own weight, and expect everyone to cater to them. I encounter that far more often than the first two. Usually women who seem arrogant or overconfident can back it up if you try them.
    • Re: overconfidence and arrogance

      Mon, June 16, 2008 - 8:45 PM
      Gilgamesh, you've heard what the women have to say on this topic. What about you - how would you answer your own questions?
      • Re: overconfidence and arrogance

        Wed, June 25, 2008 - 1:30 AM
        Well...
        I don't have an answer, I suppose that's why I'm asking. The thought came to me from a previous thread about confident men and if women are intimidated by them. Chicks dig confident men, like I dig confident women. So I took the thought to the next level, women don't like overconfident men so I what is a mans reaction to an overconfident women. Then I found out that I couldn't think of a single piece of behavior that a women could exhibit that I could categorize as overconfident. this brought the current question to mind, what is an overconfident woman like? She must exist, right? Then what is she like?
        I'm more happy to have the dialog started than actually receiving and answer and to have helped start it.
        thanks for asking!
  • Re: overconfidence and arrogance

    Wed, June 25, 2008 - 4:37 PM
    I, just like with men that there is a huge difference between being comfortable with who you are and that kind of confidence and arrogance. Because to me arrogance comes from a place of insecurity.
    And it is tricky with women, I am not necessarily the most confident woman but when I have had to be assertive I have been told I am strident or treated like I am a bitch. Yet the same behavior, of knowing what you want and asking for it and making sure it happens in a man was seen as just assertive and taken as just fine behavior.

    Behind any arrogance, in either men or women is fear. But telling the difference between self esteem and arrogance can be tricky sometimes.

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